Talk:Marxism–Leninism

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• GEANVB -

"stalin literally did not like yezhov and purged him for a reason and please stop citing wikipedia you absolute shitlib of a holocaust denier also he is not a red "great russian chauvinist" or russian "ultranationalist" (hes literally georgian) he just opposed bourgeois separatist-nationalism but approached in a greatly wrong way."

K1R4KW33NN

I will divide my arguments into a few topics, please read:

1) About Yezhov, the mistake happened because of the nickname Yezhovshchina, but I feel like I should have paid attention to that before, so ok;

2) The Wiki allows the use of Wikipedia as a source, just see what the Editing Guidelines say about it. I think you are skeptical about Wikipedia because of some vandalism and misinformation that occurred, but all of it was reverted and fixed and will continue to be so as far as possible. The articles cited have a large number of references and documentation that verify the veracity presented there. Honestly, I think you are only skeptical about Wikipedia for ideological reasons;

3) At no time did I say that Stalin was a Chauvinist or Ultranationalist, otherwise I would have already included the respective pages. I mentioned that during Stalin's government there was imperialism and persecution of ethnic minorities, because they happened, just read the sources. "Bourgeois Nationalism-Separatism" is nothing more than a scarecrow used to persecute rivals, many because of their ethnicity, besides this term and similar ("Bourgeois Nationalism") is used only by Communists sympathetic to the USSR to attack nationalists (you forgot to say that they were "kulaks");

4) "Accused"? Homosexuality was recriminalized in 1933 under Stalin, article 121. Stalin was born in the 19th century in an Orthodox religious context, it is to be expected that he would have an aversion to homosexuals;

5) WHERE THE FUCK DID I DENY THE HOLOCAUST? I didn't expect this ad Hitlerum, this is a completely absurd lie.

• - Trying to play out Stalin as somehow being worse as or even worse than Hitler is inherently Holocaust denial, because you're essentially implying that the Holocaust wasn't that bad compared to Stalin's "crimes", because "less people" were killed. Also, you're suggesting he's a chauvinist and ultranationalist cuz he's some sort of red Hitler to you because of the "subjugation" of non-Russian soviet minorities, hence it implies that he wants the Russian to reign over minorities, which is a silly liberal, if not socially acceptable form of denying the Holocaust. Also, Stalin is an atheist and only laxed out the laws against religion for pragmatic purposes (even though I personally disagree with that move).
  • GEANVB - 1) At no point did you deny or present evidence against the facts, only that I am trying to make him look as bad as Hitler's (I don't even believe that);
    2) "By equating Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer, you deny the crimes of the latter", that is idiocy. Your argument can be used to deny the crimes of Leopold II, Showa Japan and the Rwandan genocide;
    3) Yes, I know Stalin was an atheist, but my argument is that he grew up in a conservative era and in a religious context. Even though he deconstructed many of his thoughts, it is still expected that he would still have many conservative positions.

Article 121 of the USSR criminal code made a distinction between ‘Pedarasty’ and Pedarasty committed against a child (the latter carrying a sentence of 8 years instead of 5. So, even though they used the word pederasty it didn’t just criminalise homosexual acts with minors, it criminalised homosexuality as a whole. -Davhen07

DoctorNobody: Premise 1: Hitler (and other Nazis) orchestrated the Holocaust Premise 2: Stalin was a monster Premise 3: The previous 2 premises don't contradict and are true Conclusion: Both were bad

It's pretty clear K1 is trying to paint Stalin better than he was for ideological reasons, which is honestly pretty pathetic. There's so much variance within State Socialist ideologies alone because people can have different views, why chain your views to a man who was so bad a leader he is routinely compared to Hitler, genocided Ukrainians, and had to build a wall in Berlin to keep people in? Like actually develop your own thoughts please. And no, taking your beliefs straight from Second Thought or The Deprogram isn't developing your own thought.

• Boynextdungeon - Hitler was State Socialist? Dude, what are you smoking? And Stalin didn't built Berlin wall. It was constructed during Khrushchev. And in general, I want to say that this thing with equalization of Hitler and Stalin is product of Cold War era propaganda, which tried to equalize Socialism with Fascism, despite them having obvious differences.

DoctorNobody: I will take the L on the Berlin Wall thing. And I wasn't trying to imply Hitler was a State Socialist, his economics are so whack no one even knows what he is. What I meant was that it seems pretty weird to spend so much time defending and emulating the beliefs of one State Socialist (like Stalin) when there's many State Socialist thinkers who disagree with him, like K1 can just.. not follow MLism or Stalinism as if it's gospel? Maybe the origin of Stalin and Hitler being equal is propagandist, but we're not operating with that propaganda today or here. I'd even say Hitler is worse, yet still Stalin is far closer to him than anyone should be because he straight up committed genocide 👁️👄👁️

Party for Socialism and Liberation

This entire section is just completely wrong and stupid. The PSL's ideology isn't distinct enough other than moderate pro-easternism and an emphasis on anti-imperialism to have its own variant section in the infobox and a lot of the stuff there isn't stuff they believe but stuff they defend. Also we established we don't call things kakistocracy without non-fringe sources. Just delete it. {{SUBST:I|Gherweb84}} {{SUBST:Text-shadow|⛿Gherweb⛿|forest|lime|-0.0|-0.0|0.5}}: walk, talk and stalk

Brezhnev as a sub-ideology

Electric Bomb moved Brezhnev from the sub-ideologies section. However, I think it should probably stay as a sub-ideology given there are Stalinist/Anti-Revisionist MLs who oppose Brezhnev, and Brezhnev also had great influence on the other variants in the Eastern Bloc. On the other hand I know Brezhnev halted/slowed down de-Stalinisation. Just thought I’d put it here for discussion because EB is a mod and I didn’t want to get banned for partially reverting the edit. -Davhen07

• TEB - I actually wanted to move both ideologies to personal tendiences (they are merely just followers of the ideology) and make "People's Democracy" or "Socialism in one Country" the actual sub-ideology, but I feared it would create more discourse than the page already has. I will work on something here.